Episode 96: Discrimination, Enshrined in Law

Yeah, I’m not doing that. I’m using the scientifically arrived at definition in the applicable field (ie. historical science). Naturally religious orthodox jews would see things differently. But it’s in the name: religious. These are not the right people to have a scientific discourse with, generally.

It means that it is hard to talk about in scientific terms. And one has to be careful not to drift off into unfounded personal opinion that doesn’t help anybody.

There certainly is no such thing as German ethnicity at all. Germany wasn’t even a country 150 years ago. How would you define such a thing? What makes someone of Saxon heritage German? What about Bavarian? And what happens if you’re from Frisia? Why is one person from Frisia considered Dutch and the other German? They both historically spoke Low Saxon. What decides if you are German in case you were born in Schleswig? Your ancestors might have spoken Danish for centuries and you just ended up on the German side of the border because of the plebiscite. What about the Saar? Are Austrians ethnic Germans? Austria used to be a kingdom in the HRE same as Saxony or Kleve.

Whereas German culture is markedly different from French and can be traced as such back to the early Middle Ages. It’s not my speciality when it comes to history, but the delineation started with the Franconians and Carolingians, I think.

See, the point is that borders of a state have nothing to do with ethnicity. Israel is a very special case, born out of a very special situation created during the early 20th century. Whereas European states have histories going back literally thousands of years. I mean, to this day, I can show you which German cities were on the Roman side of the Rhine and which weren’t just by walking along the streets.

As a historian, I would actually tend to agree with that. Probably just not in a way they’d agree with me on.

I think we do agree on a lot of points, actually. Maybe if we just don’t use the term “race” (it’s stupid anyway) and are careful to state when we say jewish if we are talking about the religion or the culture, we’d get along very well. :slight_smile:

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You have a point there. Maybe I should start these history episode I’ve been threatening. Problem is, that will be a lot of work. Probably something to plan and aim for in 2022.

Actually, for me at least, it is interesting.

Maybe because I was also born nearby :thinking:.

(You can actually reply with a linked topic, so you can fork out your topic into it’s own thread.)

Anyway, I read the conversation, and to be honest, I still can’t tell what you are trying to say, or what are the points of disagreement.

I will try to re-read again.

Oh wow! I didn’t know that. That’s a really cool feature!