Episode 98: The German Constitution and the Virus

[SteveB]

@Petit-Michel

Another aspect I’m interested in learning more about is whether immune compromised people (where vaccination doesn’t help much or for very long) or unvaccinated people serve as ecosystems for the evolution of new strains.

I’ve actually heard talk that vaccinated people may actually be having this same effect. Where the vaccine does not prevent the person from getting sick and the virus fights back and either mutates or becomes immune to the vaccine. They compared it to the same effect as viruses becoming immune to antibiotics through the practice of not finishing your prescription. Both scenarios sound plausible.

[fabsh]

@racoon

Also, I wanted to ask you …What do you think about Cristian Terhes’(Member of European Parliament) last speech? In a press conference held on Nov. 24th 2021, he explained why the Green Certificate is violating peoples’ fundamental rights.

Thanks for the feedback! I am including it into tonight’s show, like many other replies in this thread. But I’ll have to watch that video later. I haven’t heard about that speech before and just now don’t have the time to watch it right now as I am prepping a show.

[fabsh]

@Petit-Michel

(the virus causing Polio is gone or dormant, right? people still suffering the result paralysis may still be around but there are no new cases?)

There were cases as recently as 2019 in Pakistan and Afghanistan:

Polio | Epidemiology

I actually don’t know of a single virus that was eradicated by a vaccine.

[fabsh]

@Petit-Michel

If that’s the case then that could be another thing to evaluate when asking whether being vaccinated is purely a personal risk decision (again, saying nothing here about whether the policy directions are right – I disagree with those for some of the reasons Fab gives and other reasons or feelings of my own).

I would like to point out that my standpoint is not that vaccines don’t protect others at all. In the case of SARS-CoV-2, as you’ve also shown, there is some indication that it helps mitigate some infections – if only because people aren’t as sick and not as long.

But vaccines were never designed to protect others and they are not very effective at it. So my point is that telling this to people is misleading. Hoping for the vaccine to get rid of the virus somehow flies in the face of basic epidemiological evidence from all kinds of other outbreaks in the last 100 years. It’s very obvious if you look at the literature (even from the WHO and places like the RKI and the CDC) pre-2019 before the propaganda hit.

So “experts” and politicians are lying to people and making them false hopes. And we’re fucking up better responses we could have instead because of it.

[fabsh]

@nekr0z

(Israel started mass-vaccination very early on, and also was one of the first countries to widely practice and enforce boosters)

It cracks me up that Israel, for months now, has been reported on in the German press as The Country That Does Everything Right^TM, while Germany is totally shit at everything of course. To the point where my wife kept telling me they were so far ahead of us and was very surprised when I looked up the actual data:

My wife is extremely smart. She’s on her way to professorship. She’s a lot smarter than me. But it goes to show: You just can’t trust the press. And yes, you can quote me on that.

[fabsh]

And BTW, to get to that percentage, Germany had to vaccinate roughly ten times as many people as Israel. Israel is smaller than the Ruhr metro area, population-wise.

[fabsh]

@SteveB

Where the vaccine does not prevent the person from getting sick and the virus fights back and either mutates or becomes immune to the vaccine.

Except the receptor sites of SARS-CoV-2 (which are the mechanism by which your immune system detects the virus and which the vaccine uses to prime it) have not mutated at all. And they are very unlikely to mutate – coronaviruses are very different from influenza in this way.

This was known extremely early on. I first read about this in the April 2020 study of that first German outbreak at the Webasto office near Munich. This virus seems to mutate in how it multiplies (virus load) and how contagious it is (which areas of your body it multiplies in), but not in the receptor sites. Which is also why all of this panic of new variants (OMICRON!!!) seems to be largely press propaganda and fear mongering.

[astralc]

@fabsh

actual data

what the definition here for “partialy” and “fully” vaccinated? they ignore alternate definitions - so is it 2 doses? 2 doses + booster?
According to Israel government infected (+booster if over 6 months) also count as vaccinated.

[fabsh]

It tells you the definition in the very graphic.

[astralc]

I saw now it say “first and second dose”, so it have specific definition (is it the current German definition? I know it is not for Israel)

[fabsh]

I don’t know. And I’m not sure comparing it this granularly makes sense at all due to the vast differences in size of the country and the logistics involved.